Thousand Oaks gunman went from Marine vet to mass shooter. Investigators want to know why. 11/09/2018
As usual, after another mass shooting by a veteran, investigators say they want to know why he committed his crimes; however, there have been dozens of these in the past, or if you count the lower profile murders where only one or two people are killed and it's only reported at the local level, thousands, and even without a peer reviewed academic study there are patterns of behavior that can be recognized, and he fits at least some of them.
This time he even taunted investigators with a Facebook post shortly before going on his shooting rampage saying the following:
It doesn't take a genius to realize that he's right on the nose with this one; and people familiar with the best research about the subject might know that it's actually worse than he implied; because there is enough of this research to recognize how to prevent it, although the best research isn't necessarily recognized by the media, government or even many academic institutions. About ten years ago the New York Times and the Colorado Springs Gazette did a couple series reporting on problems with violence and high rates of murder from veterans returning from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, showing how much more violent some of them were, however even this wasn't as comprehensive as it could have been.
When these reports were covered in the national media for a few months there was an enormous amount of outrage at their findings, and the original reports didn't get nearly as much coverage as the people expressing outrage that they could come to these conclusions, typically without even reviewing the facts. I followed up on this myself with a couple articles in 2014, States with high murder rates have larger veteran populations and Teach a soldier to kill and he just might This review included hundreds of veteran murders and it also attempted to review some statistical studies on the subject; although, after reading many of them it was clear that political bias was extremely common on this subject and it required a careful look to ensure that the statistics aren't being distorted either way.
The vast majority of this bias is almost certainly denying a large portion of the problem, including one study by the government that uses the prison population to argue that veterans are less likely to be in jail. However, even the people carrying out that study admitted that there were problems with it, once you got past the headlines, but they didn't cover all of them. They admitted that even though there were fewer veterans in jail they were more likely to be there for violent offenses, and they were more likely to be older and serving long prison sentences. If you looked closely there was also some acknowledgement that a large portion of the non-veterans were in jail as a result of the drug war for non-violent offenses. After reviewing a large number of these reports about veterans being arrested for murder, I can tell you that a lot of them didn't receive nearly as much time in jail as people from abandoned inner cities that commit similar crimes, often because they use PTSD as a defense, and serve surprisingly short sentences. This is much more common with cases that don't get nearly as much attention, which obviously doesn't include mass murders.
The vast majority of the victims of murder from veterans are either other veterans or their own family members. Other veterans and family members are often the ones most likely to recognize the problem and try to solve it as well, although they often get little or no help from politicians of commanding officers. In many cases the veteran commits suicide after committing murder, is killed by police, or gets killed before actually killing anyone in self defense. In many cases including Ian David Long, Devin Patrick Kelley, the Texas shooter about a year or two ago and Rusty Rumley Jr., who went on a shooting spree killing five counting himself ten years ago, there were obvious warning signs and they were investigated for domestic violence and let go, with little or no action. If you go down the list of other mass shooters, or just those charged with one or two murders, there will no doubt be many more where warning signs were ignored before the shooting.
When a shooter like Ian David Long does get investigated people are often outraged that they didn't respond to the warning signs, and can't understand how the military can be so incompetent. The reason is almost certainly that there are just way to many veterans with emotional problems, and the vast majority of them don't go on shooting sprees, so if they overacted then they would almost certainly be persecuting many that aren't on the verge of going on a shooting spree. And, of course, they need these veterans to fight all these wars based on lies.
Apparently, the first signs of trouble with Long went back to high school when Thousand Oaks gunman Ian David Long once attacked track coach 11/09/2018 and instead of investigating him or holding him accountable they pressured the coach to accept his apology and drop charges, so she wouldn't damage his potential career in the military. They also covered up later incidents and while preparing for this article I found that several studies on PTSD and a lot more material have been removed from the Department of Veterans Affairs web site, and are now only available on the Wayback Machine to those that know where to look for it (additional details and links below).
Of course, no one wants to believe that all these veterans that are supposedly "fighting for our freedom" are actually emotionally unstable time bombs waiting to go off and go on shootings sprees; and the vast majority of them aren't. Some of them even try to expose the wars based on lies after realizing their country has betrayed them; however instead of receiving thanks from the political establishment or, in some cases, other veterans they're often persecuted by the same organizations that occasionally cover up for future mass shooters like Long, Kelley and Rumley, as well as removing the research about PTSD from government web sites so that veterans might know better how to prevent violence or suicides. The persecution of these veterans occasionally shows the hostile work environment in the military, contrary to the glorious propaganda that we watch, almost non-stop on the mainstream media about veterans coming home to surprise their loved ones, or many other types of propaganda pieces, that many veterans have to know doesn't accurately reflect real life.
A more accurate picture of the culture in many military bases may be described in some relatively low profile articles about stories that are almost never mentioned on Cable News, which reaches a much larger audience than most newspapers, even the New York Times, like How the Death of a Muslim Recruit Revealed a Culture of Brutality in the Marines 07/06/2017 which led to an alleged suicide; and A Murder Conspiracy Charge, Alleged Drug Ring, Sexual Harassment and Stalking: Command Crisis at California Marine Base 08/30/2018. This hostile work environment starts in boot camp and continues as long as people are in the military, and perhaps beyond, at least in some bases, although it's almost certainly not the same in all. Boot camp indoctrination is designed to teach blind obedience to authority and prepare veterans for the physical activities they have to endure in combat.
Actually, in many cases this training may begin before cadets join the military and they may be extending authoritarian child rearing tactics more concerned with controlling children than teaching them critical thinking skills, by many parents, often using corporal punishment to teach children to obey. This tactic is more likely to lead to escalating violence including bullying hazing domestic violence and even murder or support for wars based on lies.
This practice is escalated in boot camp where cadets face intimidation from the beginning to teach them to blindly obey orders and go along with the agenda of the group as part of military solidarity, which they often refer to as a "band of brothers" or other flattering terms that often don't reflect reality anymore than the homecoming videos all over the media. Those that question authority are often threatened into compliance, however this almost never makes it into the media unless there's something explosive happening like the veteran shootings that are far more common than the media implies by only reporting one or two at a time as if they're rare or isolated incidents.
Some of the shooting incidents often expose the harassment that led up to it, including Ivan Lopez, the second Fort Hood Shooter that had arguments with other veterans prior to his shooting spree and suicide; Eulalio “Leo” Tordil a police officer and veteran who harassed his own family and forced them to go through military style drills, indicating that boot camp training was a part of his lifestyle leading to domestic abuse and killing of his own family members. There are numerous other stories about how boot camp intimidation became part of veterans lifestyles in many of the other veteran shooting incidents.
And there was of course Nidal Hasan the 2009 Fort Hood shooter who had to put up with harassment about his religion, like Raheel Siddiqui, and went on a shootings spree. This is part of the inevitable problem where they claim that Islam is not the enemy in the so-called "War on Terror" but at the same time they routinely demonize the enemy in their boot camp training which led to his spree, combined with some of the research that he did on wars killing Muslims in foreign countries, that most of us don't learn about in the traditional media. I'm not a Muslim, and disagree with a lot of their beliefs, including some, like other religions, that advocate for violence in some cases; however, a large portion of the "war on terror" involves bombing people all over the world, and there's little or no doubt that if anyone else bombed us the way we bomb many other countries that we would be as outraged as they are and inclined to retaliate.
The political establishment claimed that they're not against Islam, just the terrorists, and that they're trying to recruit allies among Muslims that are willing to help them fight against the extremists, which is why they recruited people like Nidal Hasan and Raheel Siddiqui in the first place. However instead of trying to reconcile the differences between cultures, especially in the military where they train people to fight wars against "terrorists," primarily Muslim, they demonize the enemy teaching cadets to hate them, as part of their indoctrination to convince them to kill without hesitation, leading to the hazing and abuse of these veterans, which contributed to Hasan's decision to go on a shooting rampage, and Siddiqui's alleged suicide. David Philipps, author of "Lethal Warriors" and the Colorado Gazette series cited previously, reported about how they demonize the enemy as part of the training of recruits which inevitably contributed to these problems, although after Hasan went on a shootings spree everyone was so outraged that few were even willing to consider the possibility that this could be a factor, although if it had happened to their side it would obviously be different.
This kind of hazing is also verified in many memoirs, including Chris Kyle's who wrote about how it was routine and even argued that it was desirable, although few people would want to go through it, and there's plenty of evidence that indicates it leads to escalating violence. Kyle even admitted this as well, although he didn't draw the connection, but he wrote about numerous incidents where he often got in fights, and admitted that many other veterans were more likely to get in fights as well, and that it was common for their superiors to discipline them for it and often cover it up letting them off easier that civilians would be. The theme is repeated over and over again, intimidation and violence or the threat of violence or some other retaliation is routinely used to keep people in line and prevent them from questioning authority.
Kyle also wrote about how he felt it was justified to fight someone for questioning the war that was based on lies, when he wrote about a celebrity he allegedly encountered in a bar, and after the celebrity spoke about how they shouldn't have been in Iraq because it was based on lies about weapons of mass destruction, which was true, he implied that he fought him and blackened his eye. He didn't mention the name of the celebrity in the book, but in an interview he admitted that it was Jesse Ventura, who filed a lawsuit for libel, eventually winning, but while it was awaiting trial Kyle was killed by another veteran, in one of the higher profile shootings.
In many cases this culture of intimidation is turned against the people that are often trying to solve the problem, including those that speak out against wars based on lies, and in some cases the victims of murders are often witnesses of atrocities or potential whistle-blowers.
In A Tale of Two Marines 11/09/2018 David Swanson compares Ian David Long to U.S. Marine Josuee Hernandez who spoke out against wars based on lies and drew attention to it during a Portland Trailblazers game. He also reported on his research of "At least 35% of U.S. mass shooters were trained by the U.S. military," based on a Mother Jones list of mass shooters going back to 1982, and he points out that it could be higher since he was only able to research information reported by traditional media, and that he "found no news reports that stated that any of the shooters had not been in the military." However, in all fairness I doubt if many more of them were in the military, so I wouldn't assume there's much more. I did some similar research and, even though I didn't find many claims that the shooters hadn't been in the military, I did find that they reported on their activities during prime military age, and a few of them were too young to be in the military. One of those, however was Nikolas Cruz, who David Swanson points out was in ROTC, and apparently did go through military training, although they banned him from training with guns after they had discipline problems with him. However, it's unclear if they allowed him to train with guns or not before he began acting out, and there were also reports that he was subject to bullying, which may have contributed to his shooting spree.
While they often cover up for future shooters like Ian David Long, Devin Patrick Kelley, Rusty Rumley Jr., and many other veterans that eventually went on to be mass shooters or kill their own family members or fellow veterans, they rarely hesitate to prosecute veterans who speak out about military corruption as indicated in several cases including when Brittany DeBarros began protesting the war with twitter posts like this For those of u who thought that $681 billion military budget was going to “support the troops” or that these wars are to make you safer... 11/0/2018 Aprox. 45% of kids on military bases are eligible for free or reduced cost lunch. and was investigated for it. According to one article, "While Army Reserve and National Guard soldiers are allowed to make public political statements while in a civilian status, those actions are against regulations while the troops are on active orders."
Apparently when you join the military, according to many people, you're required to abandon your right to free speech. We supposedly went through a lot of this after World War II when so many people were outraged by the excuses from Germans at trial, that they were "just following orders." Stanley Milgram supposedly did research to understand why people blindly obeyed orders so they could prevent it; however, as I went into in Eli Roth’s Milgram/Obedience experiment much more extensive than most people realize his research was supported by the Office of Naval Research who also financed Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment which was part of a series of experiments to help develop indoctrination techniques used in boot camp where they teach people to blindly obey, the opposite of what they claimed the research was intended for. This research may ahve taught some people in the academic world not to obey, however some of them used it in the military to indoctrinate working class people that never heard of it.
If the military was sincere about not teaching people to blindly obey orders then there should be little or no doubt that they would welcome input from Brittany DeBarros and other veterans against illegal wars; however then they wouldn't be fighting them in the first place. The response she received from many veterans on Twitter was very positive; however, it showed a large divide among veterans, because there were also many that trolled her with derogatory comments, including several accounts that claimed to be veterans. A large portion of her protest was sticking up for veterans rights as well as other victims of illegal wars yet some of the victims of corporate and military corruption seem to be outraged at her, not those that are abandoning veterans!
One of the things that she's protesting is that the military contractors always get paid but the veterans often get treated like second class citizens that don't have the same rights to free speech that major campaign donors do, and mental health treatment for those with PTSD is often inadequate or they treat them with contempt when they ask for it, which has lead to many of these veterans shootings. When something does go wrong, like Abu Ghraib and they need someone to blame it's the veterans at the bottom that blindly obey orders, like they were trained to do, not those that give the orders, and when people refuse to obey illegal orders they also get prosecuted which means veterans are often screwed either way!
In addition to covering up domestic violence by Ian David Long, Devin Patrick Kelley, Rusty Rumley Jr., and many other veterans that weren't getting proper treatment, or perhaps shouldn't have been eligible for the military in the first place, they're also taking down some of the research on the subject from the Department of Veterans Affairs Web site. Some of this research is probably biased, but There's no good reason to take it down.
These research reports are still available on the Wayback Machine; however, most researchers may not know where to look for it. A close look at some of these reports shows some of the biases including Research Findings on PTSD and Violence: U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs which says "Individuals with PTSD are not dangerous. Although PTSD is associated with an increased risk of violence, the majority of Veterans and non-Veterans with PTSD have never engaged in violence." This is clearly contradictory, at least partly; most individuals with PTSD are almost certainly not dangerous, but if there is "an increased risk of violence" then clearly some of them may be. Most of these reports, including this one concludes that individuals with PTSD are far less likely to be violent if they're treated properly. But there are also many reports that are often spread more widely after a mass shooting by a veteran saying that this treatment is often not available to them. Or at least it was mentioned after many other mass shootings by veterans, but I don't remember it in the past week or so and the mainstream media is already cutting back on follow up coverage on him.
Another article from 2012 says in the headline that the "Link between PTSD and violent behavior is weak" 03/31/2012 but then after it explains how "pin down with certainty" it goes on to say that "Veterans with PTSD are two to three times as likely to be physically abusive of their wives and girlfriends as those without the diagnosis. They’re three times as likely to get into fistfights when they go to college. One study showed they are especially prone to 'impulsive aggression,' but that 'premeditated aggression' — the kind of act Bales is accused of — was far more common in veterans without PTSD than in those with it."
Which one is it? That the "link is weak" or that it's "two to three times as likely?"
This is just a sample of the spin put on this subject But removing the research from the Department of Veterans Affairs website certainly can't be helping things.
Taking down good research seems to be increasingly common and it's often done while supposedly "redesigning" or something that often involved improved graphics, or at least seems to. They also did this about four years ago at the Army, Navy, Marines Times, which I used to search for a lot of these cases which involved veteran shootings and found that they had the most concentrated collection of them going back two years that could be searched on their search engine. But shortly after I did this they redesigned their web page making the search engine less effective, but improving the graphics. This may look good but it makes research harder. This was done during the Obama administration; and during the Bush administration while searching NASA web site on a different subject they did something similar, without removing educational material but making it more difficult to research while improving the graphics.
The following are some related articles including copies of studies from the Department of Veterans Affairs through the Wayback Machine; once you go into a couple of the articles you can navigate through the links to find many more pages that may no longer be available:
Partners of Veterans with PTSD: Research Findings: U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Research Findings on PTSD and Violence: U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Assessing Risk of Violence in Individuals with PTSD:
Anger and Trauma: Why is anger a common response to trauma?
PTSD: National Center for PTSD: Violence and Abuse This section provides information about the effects of child abuse, domestic violence, and sexual assault.
Violence and Other Trauma This page includes information about the effects of violence, abuse and other types of trauma such as motor vehicle accidents.
Co-Occurring Conditions PTSD often co-occurs with other mental health problems, such as depression, substance abuse, and TBI.
After Combat Stress, Violence Can Show Up At Home 04/27/2016 by Quil Lawrence "The woman operating the hotline began weeping," Bannerman remembered. "She was getting so many of these calls from military spouses all over the country."
Link between PTSD and violent behavior is weak 03/31/2012 By David Brown Veterans with PTSD are two to three times as likely to be physically abusive of their wives and girlfriends as those without the diagnosis. They’re three times as likely to get into fistfights when they go to college. One study showed they are especially prone to “impulsive aggression,” but that “premeditated aggression” — the kind of act Bales is accused of — was far more common in veterans without PTSD than in those with it.
Experts: Vets' PTSD, violence a growing problem 01/17/2012 "You're going to see this more and more over the next 10 years," said Shad Meshad, founder of the National Veterans Foundation, who has been working with veterans since 1970. "... There's a percentage that come back, depending on how much trauma and how much killing they're involved in, they're going to act out."
Another Amazing Coincidence: Man Trained to Mass Murder Commits Mass Murder 11/08/2018 by David Swanson
Ian David Long final Facebook post: I hope they call me insane 11/09/2018
Thousand Oaks gunman Ian David Long once attacked track coach 11/09/2018 Other administrators and coaches pressured her to accept Long’s apology, telling her she was ruining his future since the incident would jeopardize his Marines application. To her regret, she gave in, she said.
California shooting: Mother of man killed after surviving Las Vegas attack says 'I don't want prayers, I want gun control' 11/09/2018
Veterans Responsible For Recent Gun Massacres #ThousandOaks #TallahasseeShooting 11/09/2018
School officials once predicted Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz could be 'model student' 05/19/2018
Florida School’s R.O.T.C. Lost 3 Cadets; Suspect Was a Member 02/20/2018
LIVE: California shooting gunman identified as Ian David Long, a 28-year-old Marine Corps veteran 11/08/2018
Suspect identified, 37-year-old Davance Lamar Reed, after 1 killed, 2 injured in shooting at detox center in San Rafael 11/05/2018
California shooting: Gunmen on the loose after seven people shot at 'The Purge' nightclub event 10/29/2018
Gunman apparently stopped shooting to post online 11/10/2018
Screening for Violence Risk in Military Veterans: Predictive Validity of a Brief Clinical Tool 07/01/2015
Lack of access to mental health services contributing to the high suicide rates among veterans 08/18/2017
While preparing this article I did a quick search which wasn't nearly as comprehensive as the one I did four years ago and found the following articles about veterans that were charge with murder; like previous searches the most common victims are family members or or other veterans:
Two Married Marines Went To The Corps’ Birthday Ball in Va.. Now Cpl. Rodolfo Rivera, 24, is Charged With Murder 11/07/2018
Retired Navy veteran accused of killing girl found on lawn of Charlotte Va. church 11/09/2017
Second Navy SEAL charged in war crimes probe 10/22/2018 Although he wasn’t present during the alleged homicide near the Iraqi city of Mosul in 2017, Lt. Jacob “Jake” Portier faces an upcoming Article 32 hearing for what authorities say was his help in covering up a string of war crimes committed by an enlisted SEAL leader, Special Operations Chief Edward “Eddie” Gallagher.
FIRST ON WITN: NC Marine arrested for murder of friend while house-sitting 08/26/2018 A New River Air Station Marine, Corporal Javier Garzon, made a brief court appearance this morning after deputies say he killed his roommate who was also a Marine.
Marine, Ewart Odane Bent, 30, accused of Canadian's murder in Taiwan reportedly confesses 11/0/2018 Ramgahan Sanjay Ryan, a 43-year-old Canadian, was murdered with machetes then dismembered and his body parts scattered around a Taipei park.
Twentynine Palms Marine & woman arrested in boyfriend's murder 08/30/2018 Released pending further investigation
A Murder Conspiracy Charge, Alleged Drug Ring, Sexual Harassment and Stalking: Command Crisis at California Marine Base 08/30/2018
Iraq War veteran charged with murder in deaths of relatives 06/02/2015
AWOL Marine, 18, Isaiah Kahleal Evans Caeser, arrested for allegedly killing his grandmother: NC Sheriff 04/28/2018
Quan Charles, 19, A Louisiana Marine accused of murder says gun ‘somehow’ fired multiple times: cops 08/21/2018
Eduardo Arriola, 25, Ex-Marine killed Ca. Navy corpsman as she took dog for walk, prosecutors say 07/24/2018 Arriola was arrested for desertion from the Marines and later discharged and diagnosed with schizophrenia, prosecutors said in court Tuesday. In spite of his mental illness, Arriola was able to buy a five-shot Smith and Wesson revolver at the Iron Sights shooting range, prosecutors said. They say he use that gun to kill Rideout.
Former Marine Arrested: Tried to Kill Backer of Seth Rich Murder Investigation in Virginia 03/22/2018 A former Marine, Kevin Doherty, was charged Monday with Use of a Firearm in the Commission of a Felony and two counts of Malicious Wounding in an attack on a Republican lobbyist who had been investigating the murder of DNC staffer Seth Rich. That near-fatal attack happened on March 13 in Arlington, Virginia. The lobbyist, Jack Burkman, was meeting a person he believed was an FBI whistleblower in another investigation into the bureau’s handling of both the Clinton e-mail and Russian collusion investigations. He was shot twice, run over by an SUV, and left for dead last Tuesday. Doherty, who Burkman says nearly killed him, was one of the people Burkman had hired to investigate Rich’s murder.
Andrew Urdiales Former Marine found guilty of 5 California murders 05/23/2018 Urdiales was previously convicted of killing three women in Illinois in 2002 and 2004. He was given a death sentence that was commuted to life without parole after Illinois barred the death penalty.
Jorge Avila-Torrez Ex-Marine 'Serial Killer' Sentenced To 100 Years For Mother's Day Murders Of 2 Ill. Girls 11/0/2018 “You’re a serial killer,” Judge Shanes added, referring to Avila-Torrez’s 2010 conviction for murdering Amanda Snell, a Naval Military Intelligence specialist, and abducting or attempting to abduct three other woman, one of whom he raped several times before choking her, covering her face with packing tape and leaving her for dead laying face-down in snow, according to court records.
Shooter's Last 24 Hours Dissected 06/06/2008 It was around 10:30 p.m., and Rusty Rumley Jr. seemed in good spirits to Cloyd and Seth Gillispie, his best friend, as he worked on a Camaro with one of his cousins. After breaking up with Cloyd’s younger sister, Brandy, a lovelorn Rumley had recently showed signs of stabilizing emotionally. He wore a smile on his face that night, did not mention Brandy and proudly donned a cap from the National Guard – which he had recently managed to join despite a federal felony gun conviction. (Edgemont Towers in Bristol, Tenn: Five, people, including the shooter, ultimately died Feb 27, 2008
Edgemont Towers shooting revisited 10 years later 03/02/2018
Army vet goes peacenik & having an impact 11/10/2018
Veterans Support Brittany DeBarros 07/25/2018
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