Pseudo-Skeptics Can't Handle The Truth Or ......

Either Pseudo-skeptics can't handle the truth or they just might be involved in a massive cover-up. There's a common saying among reasonable skeptics claiming that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” This makes sense, although lack of extraordinary evidence isn't a guarantee that the claim is false, but in most cases it means it's highly unlikely, and we shouldn't assume the claim is true without that evidence.

However, there are many cases where there is extraordinary evidence to raise doubts about official version of truth, although the vast majority of them are complicated, so it's easy to avoid acknowledging them if someone doesn't want to believe in them. The most straight forward unexplained mystery that's easy to recognize, raising doubts about early social evolution, is ancient massive megaliths, some weighing over seven hundred tons, that were moved long distances with ancient technology despite the fact that experiments to move them with the technology allegedly available to them failed miserably when they got over ten tons, in some cases they tried to move them up to forty tons, cheating to get them on a sledge and at best only managed to move them forward a few inches breaking large number of ropes in the attempt with an enormous number of people working together.

They didn't even try to move any bigger than forty tons.

This, alone, may not be enough to prove far-fetched conspiracy theories about ancient aliens or other potential explanations for this major unsolved mystery; however, it is extraordinary enough to raise major doubts about our early social evolution. You would think that scientific people would be seriously interested in find out what the explanation for this would be!

That assumption would be false, at least when it comes to the highest profile scientists presented by mainstream media or other institutions, including most colleges, covering scientific research. Mostly the way they address this major unsolved mystery is to simply ignore it, or on the rare occasion that it does come up some of them often resort to ridicule.

The highest profile explanation for this major unsolved mystery is the Ancient Aliens series on the History Channel, which is full of an incredible number of scientific blunders; however, at least they don't ignore this unsolved mysteries and do provide an explanation for it, even if most of their work needs a major amount of fact checking. The scientific community usually relegates the job of "debunking" fringe claims like this to so-called "skeptics," including High profile ones like Michael Shermer, Joe Nickell, and they even recruited magicians like the "amazing" James Randi however most of them don't do much if any better than the fringe believers, although recognizing this would take a closer look, which the mainstream media doesn't do. so if anyone wants to do this, they have to do it on their own, at the grassroots level, or now that we have the internet, they can do it in discussion groups.

This has been going on for decades, but when ever you try to discuss this on a supposedly scientific message board or among atheists it routinely turns into an insult match, in some cases relying heavily on censorship if the people controlling the message board, Facebook group or other forum, have a strong bias and are willing to use blatant censorship to their own advantage, although anyone involved in the debate can often easily recognize this.

I first went into the experiments to move megaliths over ten years ago when I created Over One Hundred and Seven Wonders of The Ancient World (Reposted on Blogspot) and followed it up by creating a Wikipedia List of largest monoliths also includes an abbreviated list of efforts to move colossal stones. shortly after that, which was peer reviewed, to some degree, by other Wikipedians.

None of these experiments which replicated ancient technology came close to moving megaliths above fifty tons. The best alleged explanation that I've ever seen is Stonehenge – a Michigan man, Wally Wallington, demonstrated it might have been a one-man show 06/19/2018 (This story was originally reported no later than 2007.) However he still only moves megaliths up to twenty tons, and they're carefully shaped and balanced so that one man can spin them or use levers to move them. In ancient times they would have had to move megaliths hundreds of miles across rough terrain, so even though this looks impressive it still doesn't come close to explaining how ancient civilizations moved ancient megaliths. The experiments cited in the previous articles do a much better job limiting themselves to ancient technology.

More recently another article that seems very impressive reported Is this How Ancient Megalithic Structures Were Made? MIT Scientist Move 25-Ton Blocks by Hand! 04/19/2019 however if you go back to the original article, Researchers Made 3,900-Pound Boulders They Can Move by Hand, Giving More Insights Into Ancient Engineering 04/17/2019, provides a Disclaimer admitting they were less than two tons and that the original claim of "25-Ton Blocks" was false, but by this time dozens of other articles had reposted this false information without adding the disclaimer. Since they didn't move anything bigger than two tons, even though the video looks much fancier it was no better than Wally Wallington's experiments and also didn't limit themselves to ancient technology.

Many so-called skeptics routinely ignore research that doesn't suit their purposes, including Michael Shermer who wrote his own explanation claiming that those that argued for alien intervention based their beliefs out of "ignorance," however; even though he makes a point to cite four of Erich von Däniken's books he doesn't provide one source for his claims that "archaeologists have discovered images demonstrating how tens of thousands of Egyptian workers employed wood sleds to move the stones along roads from the quarry to the site and then hauled them up gently sloping dirt ramps of an ever growing pyramid. Copper drills, chisels, saws and awls have been found in the rubble around the Great Pyramid of Giza, and the quarries are filled with half-finished blocks and broken tools that show how the Egyptians worked the stone."

If you're familiar with archaeology, you might know that ancient Egyptian's did carve a drawing of people moving a statue on sledges so the claim that "archaeologists have discovered images" of this is at least partly true; however that isn't evidence to prove that it could be done that way, and he doesn't follow up by citing the experiments that were done to replicate the moving of megaliths which failed. Roger Hopkins (Also on Facebook) who was involved in the experiments to move the largest megaliths, and while he was doing them it was obvious to many that he was cheating, eventually admitted that he didn't know how they moved them, although he didn't go so far as to support the Ancient Aliens theory. At one point during one of the experiments to move a twenty-five ton megalith on PBS he's standing on it and causally says, "What, did they cement this thing down? I wasn't here when they put this on the track," even though he was one of the lead organizers of the experiment. This particular experiment never explained that; but, another one on Easter Island only moved a nine ton megalith and even though they didn't discuss how they got it on the sledge, they briefly showed a crane lifting it onto it, which was obvious cheating. However, in all fairness, when it comes to megaliths under ten tons, there was an experiment done by Thor Heyerdahl that successfully erected a nine or ten ton Moai, so if they can do that, they can lift one side at a time and slip the sledge underneath it; but they didn't try to do this with anything bigger than ten tons.

Michael Shermer's claims seem rational at first glance, but if you check the facts it quickly falls apart, and there not even as good as Wally Wallington's experiments, although I can't help but wonder why he doesn't even mention Wally Wallington, since it would do more to help his argument.

One of the most effective ways Michael Shermer and many other high profile skeptics use to make themselves seem rational when they present their case on the mainstream media is to simply avoid mentioning any research that contradicts there claims; however researchers at the local level can easily expose this on message boards or discussion forums, or at least they would be able to if they weren't routinely turned into a joke or a mud slinging argument, which is what usually happens. I've been involved in at least a dozen or so of these discussions, and they routinely turn into insult matches, when pseudo-skeptics can't explain how they were done. Several of them on Atheists forums which have been deleted or censored, after an enormous amount of bickering, without resolving the issue.

By doing this they make it seem like an insult match with both sides looking like bickering idiots in many cases, especially if sincere people respond by resorting to the same tactics, a close look often makes it clear who the more rational person is, but many people, often including me, don't want to waste their time figuring that out.

The most credible theory that I can think of is that an unknown advanced intelligence, of some sort had a major influence on early development of the human race. I often start out phrasing it this way because when it comes to more complicated theories they often fall apart, and then it helps to go back to basics with the things you can be sure of, and the fundamental theory before adding the details. this is what I consider a reasonable scientific and skeptical process, although most so-called skeptics that I encounter online don't consider me a rational skeptic, nor do I consider them rational skeptics.



However the most common belief in an unknown advanced intelligence is clearly God, who most religious people choose to believe is benevolent, which makes no sense at all, and rational skeptics are right about this. If "God" was as benevolent as they choose to believe, then when he saw the crusades, inquisitions, holocausts, etc. he would have found a way to let people know that this wasn't what he meant at all! He would also maintain an open and honest line of communication providing much better advice than religious leaders who have supported tyrants throughout history.

If God really does exist and inspired religion then that would make him a brainwashing cult leader controlling the public for one reason or another. However, if aliens or some other form of advanced intelligence, with an undisclosed motive influenced the creation of these monuments, and inspired religions then it might begin to make sense, although many more details, including their motive need to be worked out.

But all this bickering prevents a rational discussion about it, and if it's intentional then it may imply there are many people involved in this cover-up. If they're not satisfied with controlling the mass media, especially with the development of the internet, they might create a large number of trolls turning forums into mudslinging matches preventing a rational discussion.

I elaborated more on some of this in UFO Hypothesis with rational use of Occam's Razor where I explained that when the simplest explanation doesn't answer unsolved mysteries, then it's reasonable to consider more complicated explanations. Another logical principle originally said by Arthur Conan Doyle, and repeated on Star Trek by Mr. Spock says, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."



However, this isn't simple so we have to go through a complicated process to figure out all the different possibilities, which we can't do without a rational discussion, but since none of the high profile scientists or believers seem to be even trying to do a good job this makes it virtually impossible, and it adds to the mystery, since there has to be an explanation why they're being so unscientific, which is why I came up with the "recruit a group of crackpots" theory which I explained in Is Stanton Friedman working for the CIA to refute reverse engineering claims? If this is true it might explain why there are so many people bickering that often seem to be capable of reasonable discussion, yet choose not to.

Whether that's the case or not the majority of the public either doesn't pay attention to this issue of they either fall into the believers, often accepting many irrational claims, or the skeptics, often dismissing legitimate unsolved mysteries that might include and advanced intelligence that has been impacting our society of thousands of years. If this advanced intelligence or aliens don't exist then there has to be an explanation how the megaliths were moved, and why so many people are making up false claims about UFOs; and if they do exist, there has to be an explanation why they're covering it up.

Even though I don't agree with everything the believers claim and, frankly, a lot of them are quite irrational, at least they're willing to acknowledge major unsolved mysteries, even if they do go too tar with some of their beliefs, and they often are much less likely to troll or resort to censorship than many of the so-called rational skeptics that I've encountered. Recently, I was invited to an Atheist group called "Atheistically Speaking™" and it was clear what kind of a group it was, to a point, so I started out with a post about a rational use of Occam's Razor, which they quickly ridiculed, then deleted with a post announcing why he deleted it, and claiming that I was being unscientific and misusing the word "theory," which obviously I disagree with.



This group turned out to be even more obnoxious, unscientific, and irrational than the vast majority of pseudo-skeptic groups, relying heavily on insults, whether the claims they're refuting are rational or not. Frankly, it's so obvious that all but the most insecure or those that like insult matches would easily be able to see right through this. It's moderated by Greg Craddock who claims to be a magician that is "debunking" false claims, like James Randi; however, if that really was what he wanted to do there's no reason why he has to be so obnoxious, although unlike Randi he can't control the entire debate if he invites members of the general public.

Like most of the arguments that take place on this subject it goes around in circles with little content; and except for the comments that were made on the posts announcing why he deleted my posts, and many others from other people, they've all been deleted; however I copied some of the material that was available, since I had it down loaded the first time he did this, and expected it the second time. Craddock claimed that I couldn't come up with a theory about something that was "unidentified" sicne it wasn't predictable or testable, although many scientific theories start out doing just that, when there's insufficient evidence to determine what it is. One of the childish comments made in the discussion about why they deleted the first article by a member of this group which Craddock agreed with was "Sounds like we have a member conflating the misuse of the word 'theory' in place of "hypothesis" with the word 'Theory'," however he doesn't explain how the megaliths were moved, simply claiming that others had done it, while I had pointed out many experiments in an article that I had linked to.

Furthermore, even if they were right, then there would be no need to censor it, they could simply refute it rationally. However, whether it's a good argument or not this group routinely resorts to censorship for views they don't agree with, which is odd, since Facebook allows those controlling the group to set it so that posts need to be approved before they're available publicly. the clear implication to this is that they might want this constant bickering.

On the second discussion of an article that was supposed to be about Helena Blavatsky that also cited megaliths as evidence that some extraordinary things are happening, one member of the group repeatedly said that "I don't care," instead of even trying to explain it, saying simply "megaliths are explained. People moved them using methods we don't," which totally ignores experiments showing that they couldn't come close to replicating it.

Another person who claimed to have explained them by posting a photo of "People on Nias in Indonesia move monoliths to a construction site, circa 1915," although he didn't provide any background; but it was posted on the Wikipedia "List of largest monoliths," which provided this information. I responded by saying "These are very small compared to the Colossi of Memnon I mentioned, not much if any more than 10 tons." And after he falsely claimed that the Colossi of Memnon were made out of pieces smaller than the one in his picture I informed him that it may look that way since it's so badly eroded but that mainstream academics claim it was moved intact, and that they provided the weight estimate, but he could just as easily pic from dozens more megaliths well over one hundred tons including more over seven hundred tons, which he ignored saying later "I showed you a photograph of them actually doing. And again, that's just one fucking problem. You like to ignore things don't you?"

Ironically I wasn't the one ignoring things or declining to do the research. If the Indonesians, or any of the ancient civilizations around the world, were able to move megaliths over a hundred tons unaided, then Roger Hopkins and many other researchers should have been able to replicate it, which is a "testable" claim that Greg Craddock seemed to be asking for.

One of the justifications that Greg Craddock gave for deleting this article was that "Uri Geller whom you showed on the post has admitted he was fake," even though the article was actually about Helena Blavatsky, not Geller, he was only pictured among three other alleged mystics, including Padre Pio, Joseph smith Jr., and Edgar Cayce, as examples of other figures that might be a major unsolved mystery, although when I did mention them in the past I didn't adopt the common beliefs about them, although I admitted that after a close look they can't be fully explained. This includes Uri Geller, and although Greg Craddock didn't cite a source to him admitting he was a fake I found this on the internet, Uri Geller’s Confession and Human Fallibility 01/28/2008, and asked if this was what he was citing as a source or if he had a better source. he didn't respond; however, if this is his source it's misrepresented in the article he claims that Uri Geller said "I’ll no longer say that I have supernatural powers. I am an entertainer. I want to do a good show. My entire character has changed." This is hardly a confession, and it came after decades of being badgered by people like James Randi. The same article also falsely claims that "his signature trick that of bending spoons while no one is looking," his spoon bending is routinely done while people are looking, he's also known for doing the same thing with the hands of a clock, before most of them became digital. This was done in front of many scientific witnesses that couldn't explain it; however this wasn't what the discussion was about at all.

This is typical of discussion about unexplained phenomena on so-called scientific forums, although most of them aren't quite so extreme. The megaliths are the most straight forward unexplained mystery and there should be little or no doubt that it shouldn't have been possible to move them with the technology available to ancient civilizations.

Forums for people that believe in Ancient Aliens or other explanations to many of these unsolved mysteries aren't always quite as bad; however they usually go to the opposite extreme accepting arguments that are so absurd that they can't possibly be true, including a lot of obviously false claims that are clearly made up. This makes it difficult if not impossible to discuss this on line in a large group, which indicates that if they're trying to confuse the issue by turning high profile discussion into useless bickering they're succeeding. If they're not doing this then all these people making highly irrational arguments while pretending to be scientific are emotionally unstable with the mentality of a junior high school kid trying to bully others into believing what the group believes without rational scrutiny.

Either way it's virtually impossible to discuss the issue rationally in a large group; however like Edward Ruppelt said over sixty years ago in "The Report On Unidentified Flying Objects" "The one thing that stood out to me, being unindoctrinated in the ways of UFO lore, was the schizophrenic approach so many people at ATIC took. On the surface they sided with the belly-laughers on any saucer issue, but if you were alone with them and started to ridicule the subject, they defended it or at least took an active interest. I learned this one day after I'd been at ATIC about a month. ..... He just plain didn't buy a lot of their explanations. 'And I'm not the only one who thinks this,' he added."

Ruppelt was the Air forces lead investigator of Project Blue Book, and he admitted that many other researchers believed there was something to UFOs although they didn't support the most fanatical claims, and they often acted as if they didn't believe it because as he put it "'Then why all of the big show of power against the UFO reports?' I remember asking him. 'The powers-that-be are anti-flying saucer,' he answered about half bitterly, 'and to stay in favor it behooves one to follow suit.'"

When he wrote the final three chapters of his book in a second edition after about four years he may have caved under pressure making statements contradicting many of his earlier writings citing Dr. J. Allen Hynek to say that all UFOs have been explained; however, after Ruppelt died Hynek began disagreeing with the official version more often, after making an incredibly bad explanation for an alleged 1966 UFO in Michigan dismissing it as "swamp gas," which he didn't really believe, he was ridiculed heavily and by the 1970s he was openly admitting that UFOs were real and worthy of discussion and research writing several of the most rational books on the subject, although he still couldn't explain all of it. And several of the explanations for some of the UFOs that he wrote about in the final chapter, including the Lubbock Lights were totally incompatible with the description he provided in earlier chapters dismissing the Lubbock Lights as "moths" which is more absurd than Hynak's attempt to dismiss the Michigan sighting as "swamp gas."

Some skeptics, including Philip Klass, took it personally and called him a traitor; like many other skeptics, when confronted with arguments he couldn't refute rationally, Klass had a history of resorting to ridicule, or if that didn't work he often took temper tantrums.

Even though it's virtually impossible to get good information on this subject, I've been coming up with my own theories, and a growing amount of evidence is coming out to support this, at least partly, although it's still not what I would consider conclusive, when it should be the opposite if they weren't close to the truth. Even if all of it isn't true, and when it comes to more complicated aspects, it's virtually guaranteed that it's not, there're still major doubts about the official version of truth, and the fact that they can't argue rationally about it adds to the doubts.

Philip Corso wrote a book in 1997, "The Day After Roswell," claiming that he helped share technology allegedly retrieved from UFO crashes, including Roswell, with multinational corporations starting in the late forties or early fifties, and that this was how a large portion of modern technology was developed. Skeptics ridiculed this as a hoax, but he had an enormous amount of institutional support that enabled him to get published and there are many credible people that at least partly confirmed his claims including Paul Hellyer, a former Canadian Minister of Defense. Either Corso's at least partly right or there's major effort to fake this and there are hundreds more witnesses or researchers, often including high ranking military officers also claiming that UFOs are real.

If Corso is right this technology could have been used to develop modern computers, the internet, advanced aviation including technology used by NASA or private corporations no taking over the space flight industry, medical break through's and much more, perhaps, if climate change is influenced by man they might also have knowledge about how to solve this problem. Furthermore, if they knew about it before it became so extreme, they must have withheld that information, and allowed it to happen, at best, or at worst intentionally ensured that climate change would escalate. this seems absurd to most but as I explained in one of the following articles, if climate change was caused by man, then it';s a form of geoengineering and there's even a growing number of academics recommending that we try to develop it in the future including Fred Pearce who is a contributing writer for Yale Environment 360. If we can develop it int the future then, assuming there's an advanced alien race that's figured out how to travel through the galaxy thousands of years ago they could have developed research on it in the past, and this could be part of their research.

I can't guarantee that these theories are correct, of course, however if skeptics are convinced that they're right and are trying to convince others then turning the debate into an insult match isn't going to accomplish anything or convince anyone of anything. I'll give Atheistically Speaking™, a chance to respond, although judging by their past behavior they'll just delete any comments I make critical of them. This group is clearly one of the most extreme; but there are many more and even though most of them aren't so blatant about censorship, which is obviously unscientific, they routinely resort to ridicule as well. I just shared a post linking to this at Atheistically Speaking™.



The following are some of my previous articles on the subject followed by some additional sources and the debates that were deleted from Atheistically Speaking™:

Hurricane Apocalypse Coming With or Without Fringe Conspiracy Theory

Why so few arrests for Crop Circles makers? Is there microwave evidence?

UFO Hypothesis Far More Credible Than Catholic Claim of A "Miracle Of The Sun"

Spectacular Heart Transplant for Sophia But at What Cost

Who's Controlling Oligarchies Dividing The Market? Aliens?

Do Aliens own Stock in Monsanto, DuPont, or Microsoft? This includes a list of most of my previous articles on this subject.

the following are some additional sources on the subject including some reports on rapid development of technology that far outpaces anything the human race has done for thousands of years:

Geoengineer the Planet? More Scientists Now Say It Must Be an Option 05/29/2019 by Fred Pearce

Breakthrough solar panel can harvest power from raindrops — day or night 05/21/2018

Rain or shine: new solar cell captures energy from raindrops 03/13/2018

OUT OF THIS WORLD Buzz Aldrin ‘passes UFO lie detector test leaving experts convinced that he encountered alien life’ 04/08/2018

Researchers Made 3,900-Pound Boulders They Can Move by Hand, Giving More Insights Into Ancient Engineering 04/17/2019 Correction, April 22, 2019, 5:24 p.m. EST/EDT: This article previously incorrectly stated that the largest of these concrete structures weighed 25-tons, when in fact it weighed 1,770-kilograms, or a little over 3,900-pounds.

Michael Shermer Debated Graham Hancock on "The Joe Rogan Experience." It Did Not Go Well. 05/17/2017 by Jason Colavito

Transcripts | Secrets of Lost Empires | Pharaoh's Obelisk 02/08/2000 Roger Hopkins "What, did they cement this thing down? I wasn't here when they put this on the track."

Megalith moving experiments 07/23/2009

Roger Hopkins on Facebook: "Stone Sculpture I am believe in aliens, our Congress is full of them" March 2019 Zachery Taylor "Roger Hopkins Stone Sculpture I once saw you on Ancient Aliens finally admit that your experiments didn't explain how ancient megaliths were moved. I don't remember you going so far as saying that you accepted the Ancient aliens theory, though. Also the History Channel version of it has plenty of serious flaws. However if they're not partially right can you think of any other explanation?"

Sovereignty and the UFO august 2008 Alexander Wendt, The Ohio State University; Raymond Duvall, University of Minnesota

UFOs exist and everyone needs to adjust to that fact 05/28/2019 UFOs are not the same thing as extraterrestrial life. But we should start thinking about that possibility.

This man was given robotic arms that he can control with his mind. 04/25/2019 This was reported on Atheistically Speaking™ showing advanced technology that was developed very rapidly, although they decline to consider the possibility that Corso may have shared alien technology, if it's true then this may have been developed as a result of that.

The following are Facebook posts about the deletions or copies that were shared to other groups that didn't delete them and an article about Megachurches which Atheistically Speaking™ didn't delete presumably because they agreed with it:

Atheisticaly speaking Megachurch post

Helena Blavatsky FB post 05/21/2019

Zachery Taylor your psychic/pyramid post was deleted. 05/22/2019

Ancient Aliens: Helena Blavatsky adds to many major unsolved mysteries that traditional scientists routinely ignore 05/21/2019

Aliens, UFOs, Space anomalies, Ancient History, Conspiracy Theories: Helena Blavatsky adds to many major unsolved mysteries that traditional scientists routinely ignore 05/21/2019

The following is the first article deleted at Atheistically Speaking™ as well as some of the responses to the article explaining the deletion, Greg Craddock: Zachery Taylor your UFO post was deleted. 05/06/2019, which was also partly censored:

If there was a God and he was benevolent, as most religious people choose to believe, after he saw the crusades and inquisitions come along he would have said, "Hey wait a minute that's not what I meant" or come up with something better.

If there's no God, or other unknown advanced intelligence that religious people perceive as God, then it should have been impossible to move ancient megaliths; and a close look at some of the alleged "revelations" that shaped important parts of our history might be hard if not impossible to explain; although the megaliths are much more conclusive and easier to recognize that the official explanation is incomplete at best.

This opens the door for UFO theories, although the details get much more confusing. And the History Channel, which is the highest profile theorist on this subject makes so many blunders that I doubt they're trying to do a good job.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that this is part of a controlled disclosure effort.

UFO Hypothesis with rational use of Occam's Razor

Replies before it was deleted by Greg Craddock:

Greg Craddock By definition, there are no UFO theories..
Firstly there is nothing higher than a theory in science..
It's a predictable,, testable explanation
And tell me Zachery Taylor..
What does the U from UFO stand for again?

Zachery Taylor Unidentified of course. No UFO theories? could have fooled a lot of people. I noticed that you didn't offer any explanation for how the megaliths were moved. Did you even take the time to read the article or go to the "107 Wonders of the Ancient World" linked to in it, or perhaps other efforts to review this major unsolved mystery. Or are you just using unscientific ridicule?🧐

Greg Craddock Please provide one UFO theory..
Anything we can measure & test..

Greg Craddock Yeah a lot of people including yourself, don't know what a theory is in science..
What exactly are your scientific credentials Zachery?

Zachery Taylor I provided one link, you didn't respond to anything in it, including providing an explanation for how megaliths were moved, instead just used the usual smear tactics adopted by pseudo-skeptics. I can provide plenty more articles, but you don't seem interested in testing anything.

Zachery Taylor your UFO post was deleted. You claimed that there are UFO theories.. 05/0/2019 This reply notifying me of why my article was deleted and the responses to it was censored as well the following are some responses, some of which are no longer there. Most additional responses not included, but one providing a link to the article that put things in context was also deleted, so they could take my claims out of context without getting caught, a long as they deleted anyone correcting them.

Rebecca Garay-Leon Sounds like we have a member conflating the misuse of the word "theory" in place of "hypothesis" with the word "Theory".

Greg Craddock Indeed Bex.

Greg Craddock May i also mention that the post was a blog..

Zachery Taylor If you were interested in science you wouldn't need to resort to censorship.

Greg Craddock May i also mention it was Zachery Taylor's own blog.. Not a scientific paper. The blog had zero scientific input or verification.

Zachery Taylor Yes, of course it was my own Blog, that wasn't hard to figure out. What are you afraid of? If it's as unscientific as you claim, no rational person would believe it. https://zacherydtaylor.blogspot.com/2015/10/ufo-hypothesis-with-rational-use-of.html

Greg Craddock If you wish to be taken seriously in scientific discussions, please tell us your scientific credentials/qualifications Zachery..
Many thanks.

Bryce Renfro Why is this being made a thing?

Rebecca Garay-Leon Because every deletion is a lesson for those who are new and have not yet encountered such a practice.

Greg Craddock Because when I delete a post I always tell the person that posted it why I deleted it Bryce Renfro..

The following is the response to the second article, about Helena Blavatsky, 05/21/2019 deleted at Atheistically Speaking™:

Ian Covill There are plenty of social dynamics that explain religious following. Just a walk down sociology 101 will give you a few. These phemenomena aren't even limited to religious or superstitious following. I dont get why you are trying to connect the moving of the monoliths with religious following. It sounds like a red herring at worst or at least a non sequitur.

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor True, some of the leading causes of religious followings are early education including abusive child rearing tactics to intimidate children to follow orders and believe what they're told, however that isn't enough to explain all the major unsolved mysteries. I do agree that it seems like a stretch to connect the two; however old religions were closely tied to their "graven idols" which includes megaliths. The Catholic religion includes the worship of their monuments, including the largest obelisk at St. Peters square and the worship of these "graven idols" has been part of the indoctrination process.

Ian Covill Current religions are tied to their graves idols. Which includes megachurches.
I dont how any mystery surrounding these idols means anything to social dynamics.

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor megachurches are relatively new, at least when it comes to televangelists as well. there's no mystery about them that I know of, but I can cite other articles that show that's an epidemic amount of fraud and that on average they're in more violent areas with higher murder rates in the states in the Bible Belt and near the megachurches, although this doesn't appear to be related to Blavatsky. New Age cults rise more often in California or other areas outside of the Bible Belt, including New York where Blavatsky was, and they're not nearly as violent, for what it's worth.

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Ian Covill
Ian Covill That point flew right over your head. If we are still making ten story crucifixes and monster cathedrals, why do you think monoliths, tombs, and oblisks are so mysterious?

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor We know how megachurches are made; we don't know how the megaliths were moved.

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Ian Covill
Ian Covill We have a few easy possibilities. Do we know exactly which one, no, but it's far from a mystery. But again them worshipping those things isn't any more of a mystery than why we currently are worshipping similar things.

No skeptic that I know of has ever explains how the megaliths were moved; Roger Hopkins is one of the few skeptics that didn't just ignore the unsolved mystery and did many experiments including a couple of the largest ones attempting to move megaliths weighing forty and twenty five tons. they cheated to get them on the sledges, then only inched it forward with massive amounts of efforts and many broken ropes. After years of these experiments he finally admitted that he didn't know how they moved them, although He didn't call that conclusive evidence of any alternative explanation. However, it does open the door for alternative theories, at least until we have a conclusive explanation.

Sylvie King Parris You reference the laughable ancient aliens show? As soon as I read that, I started Snickering

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor Yes, I said they make a ridiculous amount of incredibly obvious blunders. so many that I find it hard to believe they couldn't have corrected some of them if they wanted to. But they're not in total denial about the unexplained mysteries about how mega…See More

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris Zachery Taylor anytime I see the phrase unexplained mysteries, my bullshit meter has an overwhelming need to flush.

Zachery Taylor You didn't explain how the megaliths were moved, nor has any other skeptic that I know of.

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris Zachery Taylor I don't care. I glanced over your post while trying to keep my eyes from rolling and stopped at that absymal show.

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Ian Covill
Ian Covill There are multiple possible ways the megaliths were moved. Are you looking for which one is the correct one, or are you completely denying that any explaination works?

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor Ian Covill No explanation I've seen comes close. What one, or more, is it that you consider a possibility?

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris We don't care.

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Ian Covill
Ian Covill Depends on the specific one you are talking about, but many could easily be carved in place. And there was a national geographic photograph series that details an Indonesian megalith going up with the same technology even the ancient times had.

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris The assumption that people who lived before us were not smart enough to to create or do some really amazing things drives me crazy.



(Another picture of megaliths no bigger than 20 tons probably smaller inserted here, as well by Ian Covill)

Ian Covill Why are the way these people do it so unbelievable?

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor The ones that I cite most often, including in the linked article, are the Colossi of Memnon, weighing 720 tons moved 420 miles slightly up hill from the Mediterranean. It's 72 times bigger than the largest successful experiment and 18 times bigger than the largest ones that Roger Hopkins tried to move cheating to get it on the sledge. He only managed to inch it forward at best. and eventually admitted his method wouldn't work.

Ian Covill How do you know how long it was moved?

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor Ian Covill These are very small compared to the Colossi of Memnon I mentioned, not much if any more than 10 tons.

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Ian Covill
Ian Covill The colossi of memnon are mad of pieces. The largest dwarfed in comparison of the photograph I just showed you.

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris Zachery Taylor so the guy couldn't figure it out...why is this a big deal? Again people are innovative creatures. We've forgotten much of what people have learned due to advances in technology

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor Ian Covill the mainstream archaeologists disagree, although they do look like they're made of pieces now after thousands of years of erosion. And even if they are there's the triathlon at Baalbek weighing 750 tons moved about a mile, and the 455 ton granite obelisk at St. Peter's square, a 550 ton megalith at the Temple Mount & much more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_monoliths

Ian Covill "the statues were made by quartzite sandstone" "transported blocks upstream of the Nile" - mainstream archeologists.

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor All the sources I read said they couldn't move it by water because they thought it was too big. And experiments failed to prove it was remotely possible to move it on land.

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Ian Covill
Ian Covill Well you posted the same Wikipedia article that claims they did. hmmm.

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris Zachery Taylor the right displacement means it could be moved, likely did that method. Water has long been the easiest method to move large heavy objects

Sylvie King Parris If this topic is about how people can believe all sorts of silliness, then i will agree. But there people tend to be suckers for Woo, wierd theories, etc. We don't have to Inject stupid ideas to things we encounter that we don't have easy answers to.

Zachery Taylor I mentioned earlier that early child abuse and intimidation tactics with appeals to emotion are part of the indoctrination process and that doesn't require anything supernatural, but it doesn't move the megaliths or explain other mysteries.

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris Zachery Taylor what does child abuse and intimidation have to do with some megaliths somewhere?

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor Sylvie King Parris Nothing, I cited that as part of the indoctrination process not how the megaliths were moved.

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Ian Covill
Ian Covill You don't need child abuse. Plenty of believers believe without being abusively forced to.

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor I'm not so sure of that, and there's a significant amount of research showing that there's much more abuse going on than is commonly disclosed.

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Ian Covill
Ian Covill I would probably agree, but i believed in god without abusively being forced to. So, at least one instance of it. Not to mention, you know, all that is discovered in psychology, sociology, and neurology, that explains may of the ways it is and could be done without abuse.

Sylvie King Parris Religious belief is more a cultural norm than anything. If you live in India you are more likely to be Hindu. Libya-Muslim, Brazil,-roman Catholic, Utah-usa Mormon.

Does abuse occur in religion? Of course, but abuse is not why people are religious.

Sylvie King Parris The answer is easily explained in any psychology or sociology 101 class.

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor Psychology or sociology moved the megaliths? I'm skeptical of that.

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris Zachery Taylor again I don't care about megaliths. I care about why people buy into stupid theories found on shows like ancient aliens.

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor Removing part of the explanation from the discussion just because you can't figure it out won't explain why people believe it; people that actually check facts might know that the megaliths are unexplained and keep an open mind.

Sylvie King Parris Zachery Taylor megaliths are explained. People moved them using methods we don't.

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Sylvie King Parris
Sylvie King Parris Why is that so hard a matter for you?

Ian Covill Zachery, you have a few problems here. You think that the construction of megaliths are a mystery, they arent. Even if they were it wouldnt suggest any advanced intelligence. Just because we couldnt explain everything about these things doesnt mean an advanced intelligence is the default placeholder. An advanced intelligence does not explain the worship or cults or psycics or soothsayers.

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor You say they aren't a mystery, yet no one has explained it.

Ian Covill I just explained them?! I mean seriously. Denying the explanations isn't the same thing as it being unexplained.

Ian Covill Besides, that's just one piece of ridiculous nonsense.

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Zachery Taylor
Zachery Taylor Ian Covill You didn't explain anything just repeated things without an explanation at least Sylvie King Parris admitted that she doesn't care how they were moved, implying that she doesn't know or think it's relevant, although clearly I, and many other people, disagree. I have to get to something else now, but if I don't have time to check back today, I'll check back tomorrow.

Sylvie King Parris Zachery Taylor I am fascinated by history, archeology and ancient cultures. I don't care about playing guess the theory when there is often good evidence already in place if one bothers to look

Ian Covill I showed you a photograph of them actually doing. And again, that's just one fucking problem. You like to ignore things don't you?

Sylvie King Parris Ian Covill I swear, a public library card should be mandatory

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Kevin Castle
Kevin Castle Sylvie King Parris Wouldn't matter, people like that wouldn't use it.

Terri White As Sylvie King Parris said social psych and 101 behavioral psych will answer the question of gathering heaps of followers. Also evolutionary psych lends us a clue about the way societies bonded together. As for the monoliths it is totally possible and given enough man power -after all slavery was the name of the game back then- to build massive structures. I think the pyramids come to mind. There is no mystery and if i think your applied the principal of parsimony the explanation is as close as your nose :)